A “NIGHTLINE FACE OFF:” DOES SATAN EXIST?: ABC NEWS’ DAN HARRIS TO MODERATE A DEBATE ON EXISTENCE OF THE DEVIL
DR. DEEPAK CHOPRA AND BISHOP CARLTON PEARSON TO DEBATE PASTOR MARK DRISCOLL AND ANNIE LOBERT ON THE EXISTENCE OF SATAN
“FACE OFF” TO TAKE PLACE AT THE MARS HILL CHURCH IN SEATTLE, WASHINGTON; FRIDAY MARCH 20
ABC News “Nightline” tackles the controversial and sensitive question of whether Satan exists in the program’s third “Face Off” on Friday, March 20, at Seattle’s Mars Hill Church. The “Nightline Face Off” series, launched two years ago, brings hot topics to the table for discussion and debate among prominent voices in their field.
In the March 20th Face Off, Dr. Deepak Chopra, philosopher and author of “Jesus: A Story of Enlightenment” and Bishop Carlton Pearson, author of “The Gospel of Inclusion” will debate Pastor Mark Driscoll of the Mars Hill Church and Annie Lobert, founder of the international Christian ministry “Hookers for Jesus” on the devil’s existence. A former Las Vegas escort, Lobert now preaches the Christian message in her effort to rescue young women from the sex trade. Mark Driscoll is the co-founder and pastor at Mars Hill Church and also the author of the “Books You’ll Actually Read” series.
ABC News correspondent Dan Harris, who covers faith issues for the network, will moderate the Face Off at Mars Hill Church on Friday, March 20th at 7:00pm PT. To obtain media credentials, please contact Alison Bridgman at 212-456-1578; alison.bridgman@abc.com
The Nightline Face-Off will air on “Nightline” Thursday, March 26, 2009 at 11:35pm (ET/PT). To submit questions for Mr. Harris to ask the guests, please visit http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/ or go to his Twitter. Follow the debate on Twitter
“Nightline” is anchored by Cynthia McFadden, Terry Moran, and Martin Bashir. James Goldston is the executive producer. “Nightline airs at 11:35 p.m. (ET/PT) weeknights on the ABC Television Network.
Satan exists as darkness exists. Darkness lacks in substance as it is merely the absence of light.
Satan as the personification of evil lacks in substance as “he” is merely the absence of love
personified in our minds. So we have to ask, does thinking make it so? For some, yes. In reality?
No.
I was raised with Christian values and the concept of devils and angels so it’s natural for me to use the word devil. The devil may or may not exist. “Evil” definitely exist. By my definition, evil is anything that kills aliveness.
If God exists in your belief system, then Satan must also exist. Philosophically, either both exist or neither. I am Athiest and believe in neither.
This will be good. I love and respect both Carlton Pearson and Deepak Chopra. Have heard of the HFJ gal and just read up on Pastor Mark Driscoll. My only wish would be that they’d have this “debate” on neutral ground and not at Driscoll’s church. He sounds like he’s a bit much and not at all in the same intelligent, enlightened league as Pearson and Chopra. My prayer is that the true contrast comes through. Bishop Carlton Pearson is a Bible scholar and long time Pentecostal minister who dared to preach that everyone is saved, period. Do a search on him and be amazed at what he’s had to go through to get that good word out. Both he and Deepak are inspiring in a universal spiritual “beyond religion” way.
theism is a belief. Satan is a belief. Evil can be experienced. From my own experience, welfare can be an evil. I once got down and really needed inspiration and empowerment but accepted welfare. It was poison. It enabled me to stay down. Worse yet, it was addicting like a drug. It fed on itself. It was humiliating and disempowering. Beareaucrats who promote welfare win votes and power to perpetrate more evil beyond belief. I broke free. Most do not and spend a lifetime playing the entitlement game.
We all understand that – by our very nature – we can choose to do good or bad. If you believe in a Creator, then He represents the light, the pure good extreme. The question then is begged, who or what lies at the other end of that extreme?
I beleive “free will” is merely the ability to allow oneself to be drawn to either of those polarities.
Jesus spoke of Satan. Jesus existed. I beleive Him
Does Satan exist ?
In a certain domain of consciousness where there is good and bad, Satan stands for all the
bad we can’t psychically bear the burden of (take ownership of). In another domain of
consciousness where nothing is either good or bad, but just is- existing in permanent
splendor- any contrast, including God/Satan, dissolves into one light.
One of the things we need to do to reach that second level of consciousness is to slowly start
taking ownership of our actions and their fruits, seeing our life as our own creation. But this can
be overwhelming and crushing, unless we do not open the door of perception to our immaculate spiritual
essence at the same time, the one that erases the guilt. Guilt (sin) is naturally felt in the contrast
based domain of consciousness and is naturally erased by the light and love of unity consciousness.
Assuming that God is perfect/light, how can evil/darkness truly exist, except in illusions?
A Creator can only create Its Self.
The term “satan” is defined or translated “adversary”. Through the process of my own spiritual evolution, the concept of an entity called satan has long evaporated into the light in which I now walk. Most traditions have a sort of antithisis to their deity…some villans, some heros. But in our everyday experience as humans, there are many persons, places, or things, that prove adversarial to our life. In that case, we all deal with satans on a daily basis. The difference, however, between the fundementalist view of the person of satan and the metaphorical view is in the way we deal with it. Traditional Christians wage spiritual warfare against the force of evil, rebuking, binding, or casting out, while more enlightened beings embrace the adversarial challenge as a stepping stone for growth. Non-resistance to the adversary without being passive is the quickest way to disspell the negative energy.
I know Carlton Pearson personally and I follow Deepak Chopra through his many books and other resourses. I am also familiar with Mark Driscoll. This should prove to be an interesting debate. Any bets on who gets “aggitated” first?
Where do you people get these ideas? The denial of God; a creator can only create itself? By the way in Scripture (The Bible), Satan is not the opposite of God; Satans counterpart would be Michael.
A little over a year ago I had an interesting encounter with the idea of Satan. A Jehovah’s
Witness had been visiting my house for several years. Because she is a kind person, and
because she had stopped by our house for over three years, I invited her in for coffee. This of
course literally opened the door to her explaining the tenets of her faith over the course of weeks. I didn’t mind, having been raised a Christian. Much of what she described was more a difference in practice
of Christianity than it was anything major. This was the case, until we reached the
topic of Satan.
My friend strongly believes in Satan, but I do not. My friend described the final battle between
God and Satan, emphasizing that Satan already knows he will be defeated by God. My
question was, if Satan admits he will be defeated, why does he not change his ways? If
God is all forgiving, why is there this unforgiving situation? I admitted to my friend that I felt
sorry for Satan, as there is no room for change of path, no state of grace, no forgiveness.
After this discussion, where I felt such overwhelming compassion for Satan, for simply a
fiction of the religious mind, I found myself truly evaluating the boundaries of compassion in
general. At the heart of my feelings of forgiveness in the past was my own release from past
events. In finding compassion for Satan I found forgiveness as an approach to the future.
Humans, including myself, cannot always help the pain that they inflict. We sometimes
act without care, not changing the paths we are on despite the awareness of the carelessness
with which we are acting. We can, however, with each injury find the grace, compassion, and
forgiveness for each other that God himself cannot grant to Satan.
They should treat the religious like lunatics. INVISIBLE FRIEND ANYONE?
As there is god there has to be an opposite. There is opposites to everything in this world. Its just a different name for higher level of consciousness but in the opposite direction. When you see everything you have unconditional hate for, you see him in everyone and everything.
On Mary Occhino’s site-on Sirius radio,she mentioned,but I don’t now how to write it,about the
marfman prophecies?Please turn me on to it.Thanks to whoever.
The Fall of Lucifer – Isaiah 14
12 “ How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer,[b] son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘ I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
The Seventy Return with Joy – Luke 10
17 Then the seventy[e] returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather[f] rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”
Satan: he fell from heaven and was cut down to the ground, he spoke in his heart and considered
himself more wise than the almighty God, he was brought down to hell – the lowest depths of the
pit, he is subject to anyone in Christ, his fall was quick like lightning, he is of no harm to those who
exercise their authority over him, believers rejoice because their names are written in heaven and
his is not…. and Jesus (the Creator of the Universe) witnessed it all??? What is there to debate.
We either choose life in Christ and live or choose the path of man and die with the ultimate rebel
himself, the devil. I hear someone saying yes but the bible was written by man. Yes it was but
it was breathed by God. And not Chopra and Pearson men??
Are not Chopra and Pearson just men??
Deepak had made a name for himself.Carlton struggles to believe. Just ask them what is right and wrong. They will use vague expression to confuse themselves and others. Deepak only ministers to those who disobey. Ask deepak what happens when you die? he will tell you like air right, you go somwhere and come back. Ask him if he met his grand parents or they have not come back? you can deny the truth but cant erase the truth. the devil is real. He is not human.He is spirit
Deepak Chopra hit the nail on the head. Religious zealots are created by the own insecurities, problems. You never hear of someone being saved when they were living the ‘good life’. Instead of attributing their own short-comings to themselves – the peg it on the ‘devil’ having control of their lives. People cling to this narrow-minded belief system when they are weak and have no personal inner strength to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. It is unbelievable has when these Christians speak none of them have an independent thought – it is all just the same babble they claim comes from the Bible. I’ve read the Bible many times having been raised in a Catholic home – what these people preach is not anything I recall reading.
Everything is light or dark, good or bad, God or devil.
I prefer Light, good and God and his only son Jesus, see what kind of life has this Mr. Chopra
and see what kind of life has Mr. Driscoll, see what kind of life have their familys what they do on
daylight and what they do at night. There is the answer …. See behind the lents, behind the tv,
how they treat to their family, to the people on the street , where is love and where is not.
Love is Good. Love is God.
It is a decision an everyday decision.
I had some respect for Deepak before seeing this program, needless to say my opinion
has changed. He was condescending towards people just because their beliefs differ from his.
Get off your high horse Deepak. Aren’t you supposedly known for compassion and
understanding? You really irritated me.
For the truth seeker the Bible = B.I.B.L.E. (Best instructions Before Leaving Earth). This Word
teaches that the evil one does live and once was the chief of angels in Heaven. I do not honor
him with a name because his name has never been changed only multiplied! He has deceived
almost everyone including all the great religions. They either worship him in one of his many
names or in one of his demons names. These names include: God, Lord, Jesus Christ, and
Allah. The word HalleluYah (transliterated into most languages) means “Praise ye Yah”.
Yahweh is the true Name of the maker of Heaven and Earth. His Son Yahshua came in His
Name (John 5:43). The evil one caused the true names to be removed and his put in. He will
not give up but he will lose and be cast into “The Lake of Fire”. How many of you will he take
with him?? None I pray!
Andreea,
Would you be having the same reaction if you agreed with everything Deepak said?
I did not see any instances of Deepak being condescending. He was brought in to
offer his opinions, and he did just that. He obviously hit a nerve with you on one or
more of his statements.
In case you didn’t notice, he was in the minority there and was under attack from multiple
sides. Did you not expect him to defend his position? Ask yourself why you were offended.
If what you believe is so concrete, there is no reason to take offense.
You seem a tad defensive, as if something Andreea wrote hit a nerve. Perhaps you might take your own advice and ask yourself why? I don’t think you’ll find the answer in a lack of belief in what you defend, although you might. Much like Deepak’s, your line of reasoning, meant to call into question the validity of Andreea’s feelings/beliefs, is self-convicting.
I was disappointed in Deepak Chopra. I felt he was too angry and undiplomatic to be constructive and influential in this debate. Bishop Carlton Pearson has more understanding of where the fundamentalists are coming from since he used to be one. Pearson should have done more of the talking and Deepak Chopra should have done less. With all due respect, I think Deepak Chopra should deal with some of his own issues before trying to educate those who believe in fundamentalist ideas. Condescension is disrespectful and puts people on the defensive which is an obstacle to learning. I thought much of what he said and how he said it was counter-productive. D. K. in Richmond, CA
Repeat, due to formatting issues:
I was disappointed in Deepak Chopra. I felt he was too angry and undiplomatic to be
constructive and influential in this debate. Bishop Carlton Pearson has more understanding
of where the fundamentalists are coming from since he used to be one. Pearson should have
done more of the talking and Deepak Chopra should have done less. With all due respect,
I think Deepak Chopra should deal with some of his own issues before trying to educate those
who believe in fundamentalist ideas. Yes, I know it is hard not to get defensive when so many
are opposed to what you believe. However, condescension is disrespectful and puts the
people you are trying to reach on the defensive which is an obstacle to learning.
I thought much of what he said and how he said it was counter-productive.
D. K. in Richmond, CA
Thinking about belief… Look at evolution, It is said that the big bang happened billions of years ago.
Scientists throughout history have been changing that number since they began the theory of evolution. Did you know the earth was stated in the beginning of the evolution theory to be 6000 then grew to 24-40million by Lord Kelvin, then increased to 80 million by Charles Lyle, and then grew to 90-100 million by John Joly and so on it goes. The point that I am making is there really is no proof of the earth being 4.6 billion years old. They say radiometric dating is what the scientists used to determine the age, but studying that dating system doesnt even work accurately. So all in all I am saying is evolution takes A LOT OF FAITH to believe it. Actually more faith to believe it than in God because God’s existence is proven through creation. I look at evolution this way… if I were to take a stack of books or papers and throw them on the floor…. they would just scatter all over the place, correct? Well by some force or being the papers would have to fall in order of neatness and in correct order page by page book by book. The earth was big banged and “somehow someway” just put into order w/o supreme being controlling it. What a coincidence? Anyways evolution takes a lot of belief. Mr. Chopra said that belief is just a cover up for insecurity. Well here it is, it’s a cover up!!!!!
NC,
Science is allowed to change, that is one of beauties of it. It doesn’t say “this is
the way it is,” it says “this is what current evidence shows.” As technology gets better,
scientific information becomes more accurate. How we determine the age of something
in space is pretty accurate. We know how fast the speed of light is, and we can tell how far
away objects in the universe are by the light they give off. When you look up into the sky at
stars, you are looking back in time. The light from these stars that we are seeing now
took thousands to millions of years just reach us. By looking really deep into space,
you are essentially looking further and further back in time. We can same galaxies being
formed, nebulae coming into formation, and stars being born.
One of the ways they can judge the age of the universe is through background radiation,
and measuring the expansion of the universe. The current data shows the universe
to be about 13.5-14 billion years old. If further data comes out showing otherwise, that
number could go even higher. But there is no evidence that will ever be presented that
will somehow decrease that number all the way down to 6 thousand years.
If you don’t believe in evolution, I suggest you take a look at viruses. They are one of
the fastest evolving organisms on the planet. That’s how new strains of colds and
other diseases get started. The viruses adapt and evolve to be immune to the
treatments that are currently killing them. It’s the way of the universe. Everything
evolves.
If you have such little “faith” in science, then I’m sure you never go to the doctor, use
electricity or even drive a car. Next time you break a bone, don’t take medicine or
see a nurse, just pray for it to get better.
Well Trevor you seem pretty smart but did you do any study on radiometric dating??
To say that it is accurate is nonsense. It uses circular reasoning do you know what that means?
So guess what, the earth is billions of years old cause someone said so, sounds like a good
idea!
Hi Trevor,
I agree with what DK said and I think that he/she summed up my feelings on Deepak well.
One of the highlights on Deepak’s contribution was when he said something along the lines
of belief being a coverup for insecurity. His statement completely nullifies his belief, that he was
there promoting; that Satan does not exist.
I think I was disappointed because I expected better from him. He is considered a modern-day
Philosopher and he refuses to entertain thoughts that are different than his.
I do agree though, that the great thing about Science is that when new discoveries are made
science itself changes. There is so much about this Universe that we do not understand and
science attempts to answer these questions. I myself cannot trust in science to answer these
questions for me, because as you mentioned, science changes. What was once true 10 years
ago, in science, is now considered false knowledge.
NC,
I did not mention radiometric dating. As the quote goes, “there is more than one
way to skin a cat.” There is also more than one way to determine the age of
something. I discussed a few of those, but not all. There is consensus between
the different methods which is how we can be pretty darn sure that it’s right.
But please, if you have problems with how scientist determine the age of things,
I’m sure they would love to hear your corrections on how to make it better.
Andreea,
You are misunderstanding the comment. This is purely semantics, and it does
not “nullify his belief.” Saying I believe that when I drop this water bottle, it will fall
to the ground is different than saying I believe in a invisible demon called Satan
that creates all evil in the world. By the former use of the word believe, you could
replace it with ‘know’. I ‘know’ this because I’ve done it before, and I can do it again
and SHOW you. The latter use of believe is more along the lines of the true
meaning of the word, as in ‘I think, but I can’t prove it’.
You see the difference? That is why the guy in audience that tried to “show up
Deepak” with his belief statement failed so massively. He completely misunderstands
the meaning when it is used. When he said “do you believe it” Deepak says ‘yes’ because
he can show you how it’s true. It doesn’t require belief when you can show it. Perhaps
the point would have been clearer and more linguistically correct if Deepak replied
“I know it, and I can show you why.”
It is rather shortsighted of you to think Deepak doesn’t consider other peoples views.
He does a better job of this than anyone I know. To be able to do what he does so easily,
you have to always consider all sides. It’s also part of the process, and to be where
he is without doing so would be impossible.
You’re showing some lack of understanding of the scientific method when you say
“What was true 10 years ago is now considered false knowledge.” That’s not true,
and that’s not the way it works. At the time Isaac Newton was one of the worlds
top scientists. He discovered new principles and ideas that took science into new
directions. His Law of Gravity for instance. However, when Einstein came around,
he proved a lot of Newton’s ideas wrong. Does this mean that everything we were
taught before hand was wrong, and Newton was a hack? No, of course not.
After all, apples still fell from tree’s.Einstein didn’t nullify all of Newton’s findings,
he just found better explanations for the way some things work. You could say he
built upon Newton’s findings.
The same goes for evolution. When Darwin discovered this, he didn’t have the tools
we have today to study things, so therefore, some of his ideas on how things work
aren’t correct. But guess what, things are still evolving. We just have better
understanding of it now. We can see at the microscopic level and view the inner
workings of molecules. Science doesn’t attempt to answer the why, but rather
the how. If it’s observable, then scientific research can be done on it.
This is quite a up-to-date information. I’ll share it on Facebook.
Hey friend…
Let me say one thing to you..
How do you know that earth exits?
As you have born so you see…
Similarly, Satan exits….which BIBLE says..
If you believe in one thing, then you know the other.
and what ever is written in HOLY BIBLE, it is true…
Try to see good. then automatically, you will know that there is bad..
If you are in bad you can’t recognize bad..
So if you are in Satan, He(Satan) will not allow you to see GOD the only GOOD…
As it is written in BIBLE that all are SINNERS, i.e we all are under Satan..
So we need Good to help to come out of bad..(i.e God should help)
other wise it is impossible..
How can Lucifer, Previously one of ‘god’s’ top angels be sent packing to ‘hell’. If ‘heaven’ is this perfect ’sin’ free place. How can Lucifer sin and get himself kicked out!!!!
Satan is a dreamed up tool for striking fear in to the church folk. If you new no better heading off to church to avoid demons tearing you apart for eternity seems like a great idea,
It is no different from the fear mongering that the media and news corporations are feeding us on a daily basis.
TERRORISM
Nuclear War
Climate change
Hell
Keep people in fear and they will keep doing as you beg!!!
Matt, “a dreamed up tool” oversimplifies this dilemma.
The problem to me is the Bible, because it speaks clearly and
often about Satan. From the Bible, Satan is clearly a distinct personality.
Therefore, as long as the Bible is credible in the minds of some, Satan cannot
be argued away so easily.
The credibility of the Bible should then be the focus if destroying the notion
of Satan is the goal, correct?
I want to know why there were no Muslims, Mormons, etc on the debate side also arguing the existence of satan.
That seems to yet again prove that the debate was about ratings for ABC and not about the debate itself as they represented it to be.
Deepak: you could have let your creative juices flow, and turned the preacher into a unitarian, had Carlton distract the commentator so that he didn’t suck Annie in and threaten her new balanced lifestyle by challenging her assumptions.
That preacher guy was ripe for convincing. Why? He sincerely was trying to get at the truth. And is less reliant on his religion to maintain his balanced lifestyle.
By the way: Deepak and Carlton on the same stage has always been my dream team. I used to imagine it way before I found out in time magazine that Carlton had become a Unitarian Wooo hooo!!! I used to slam dance with my friends in Seminary at Christ for the Nations back in the early nities during his sermons.
The strong imagination does imagine the truth.
When someone came into my coffee shop, and told me that you two were on stage together I thought they wee kidding me. But they were in the front row!! And it was real. How awsome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I felt that if I listened to what they were each saying, and did not let their points detract from that I notices that:
Both Annie and Deepak are dualists.
It is very possible that Carlton may have freed himself from a cycle of Christian Aminism(that is to say: I believe in Jesus because dearly departed grama or grampa so and so believed in him, I believe in them so by defacto I believe in Jesus.) There are a crap ton of Christains who are really animists. there are a crap ton of Christians who are really dualists.
Yet animism and dualism are rejected by the Christian faith at large. If they look into it they will find tha they are not really christians. They are gnostic or something else.
Oh and and the Pastor of the church at times leaned toward being a Christian humanist.
Any Christian who is very against demoninationalism is very open to humanism, as long as the buzz word is removed. Take out the to them nasty word “humanist” out of it. And you will hear Christians who are really humanist get all humanitarian.
I know. I was one. anti-denominationalists make great unitarians. All they need to do is sit and think about it for a while.
lator gater.
P.S: I would love to be invited to hang out with both Deepak and Carlton together sometime.
great ideas. I always follow your ideas and apply them.
Just one question though. Have you made writing this blog as your profession or do you do this in your spare time?
Just curious..
God and the Devil are both ideas.. God and the Devil can be defined in many lights, not just as a sort of “human like figure”.. God could just be that force that holds atoms together and the devil could be the void, who knows. Who says God even takes things in or even listens to us just cause he made what is. You can think of it as a type of character, an opposing force, an ideology.. Same goes for the Devil. it’s all up to your interpretation.. what makes the most logical sense to you.. personally i don’t think God has a beard or pearly golden gates in his front yard, I don’t think he is separate from us, heaven is to far away for it to make sense to me.. nor does the Devil have a spiked tail or horns with flames and demons.. But I still believe there is such a thing as God and the Devil.. my definition of each just might be completely different then what the majority of people believe..